Hansard excerpts- Oral Questions- March 30 , 2007

Hon. Lucienne Robillard (Westmount—Ville-Marie, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, when asked about the serious allegations concerning the RCMP pension fund, the Minister of Public Safety simply stated that he will appoint an investigator, and this comes after having done nothing for four months. There is nothing, absolutely nothing in yesterday's comments by the minister to reassure Canadians that he is finally taking the accusations seriously. He said nothing about the legal framework for the investigation or about the powers of the investigator to question witnesses.

Faced with such a serious situation, why is the minister improvising? The process he has put in place lacks credibility.

Hon. Peter Van Loan (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform, CPC):
Mr. Speaker, this government is concerned about the allegations made before the Standing Committee on Public Accounts regarding the poor management and abuses of the RCMP pension fund. That is why our government is taking immediate action to shed light on the matter. Public investigations will complement our understanding.


Canada's new government wants answers now. Canadians deserve nothing less.

Hon. Lucienne Robillard (Westmount—Ville-Marie, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, let us be clear. It was the Auditor General who raised the alarm about the situation within the RCMP in her November 2006 report.


As is always the case, the minister would have received a briefing by the Auditor General before the release of her report. That means the public safety minister has known since November.


Why the cover-up? Why did the public safety minister do nothing until he was forced to finally act?

Hon. Peter Van Loan (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform, CPC):
Mr. Speaker, this is actually a little amusing coming from the Liberal Party. It was actually back in April 2004 when the member for Crowfoot, a Conservative, asked that this matter be investigated and said:


My question is for the Minister of Public Safety. Are the Ottawa police investigating the commissioner's conduct as well as the misappropriation of funds?



To which the deputy prime minister and minister of public safety at the time, who was a Liberal, said:


Mr. Speaker, let me reassure everyone in the House that there is no conduct on the part of the commissioner that needs to be investigated.



If there was a cover-up, if there was a delay, it came from the Liberal side obviously.

Hon. Lucienne Robillard (Westmount—Ville-Marie, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, the cover-up started in November under the Conservative government. Let us be clear here.


The allegations we are now hearing were detailed in a report by the Auditor General. Traditionally, the Auditor General meets with the Minister of Public Safety to provide him with the details. At the time, she stated that she did not have all the facts to substantiate all the allegations made.


Why is it that, when the minister was told directly—

The Deputy Speaker:
Order, please. The hon. Leader of the Government in the House of Commons has the floor.



Hon. Peter Van Loan (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform, CPC):
Mr. Speaker, the allegations cover abuses committed between 2000 and 2005. The former Liberal government was incapable of dealing with it but we will take things in hand.

In fact, it is kind of funny. I was listening to the radio today and I heard a Liberal complaining that perhaps we are taking action too fast, we are going to get answers too quickly and, gosh, guess what, it might happen before or during an election that the truth comes out. It was thought that was a bad thing for the Liberals.

Hon. Irwin Cotler (Mount Royal, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, we have been witness to shocking testimony from RCMP officials, not just about misuse of pension funds but allegations of corruption and cover-up, intimidation and obstruction of justice, fraud and breach of trust, investigations sidelined and investigators punished.


The Minister of Public Safety was advised of this four months ago. Why did it not set off alarm bells at the time? Why now only a limited investigation? Why no independent judicial commission of inquiry to finally get at the truth in the transparent and accountable fashion that the new government always speaks about?


Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC):
Mr. Speaker, I think there were six questions and four declarations. I will try in 35 seconds to address them.


We want to get to the answers right away. We do not want to wait. The RCMP has the right to know and the people of Canada have a right to know.


We should also be aware that RCMP Chief Superintendent Fraser Macaulay, who testified and was one of those people who bravely brought forward the information just a couple days ago that we are acting on immediately, unlike the Liberals, said that he was pleased that an independent investigator will look into the allegations and believed that interim RCMP Commissioner Bev Busson was taking the matter seriously as well. He felt satisfied the matter will be independently investigated.

Hon. Irwin Cotler (Mount Royal, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member said that he wants to get at the answers right away. How does he get at the answers when he does not set up an independent judicial commission of inquiry? How does he get at the answers when there are no compellable powers? How does he get at the answers when he cannot subpoena witnesses or subpoena evidence?


If he wants to get at the answers then he has to set up an independent commission of inquiry to leave no stones unturned and to get at the truth, as we did when we set up commissions of inquiry both in Arar and with respect to Gomery.


Hon. Stockwell Day (Minister of Public Safety, CPC):
Mr. Speaker, the last time the Liberals set up an inquiry like this, it took years to get the answers. We want the answers right away and we can get them.


If the investigator finds that he is not getting the answers and that he needs more power, that will be given to him immediately.


My question is: When that member who just indignantly raised these questions, why when he was justice minister, did he do nothing on this file?